Another current political controversy if anyone is interested-

Eventually I was compelled to respond to this one on FB because it concerns the family/lineage.
Colorado teacher, Liang Baiping has recently taken to promoting himself and his new book by using his relation to Yang Wenjing, brother of Yang Wenhu, by way of promoting a very questionable claim of Yang Wenhu having been an official disciple of Chen Zhaokui, with of course no evidence, after the death of both YWH and CZK. That kind of legend (of the dead) is always the easiest to promote.
Anyhow, it is likely going to be expectedly messy. If anyone wants to read or follow it, here it be:

and

After taking your instruction for some time now, and then looking at that supposedly Chen Zhaokui "secret manuscript book", I think I can safely say it doesn't actually help a student very much in learning. I can't read the Chinese one, but from the half-finished translation PDF file, it looks very much like the usual abstract material that gets the intellectuals excited. Hopefully many people see your exposure, but Liang Baiping is likely to still make a bunch of money from the ignorant. It's too bad these predators are all over the community.

Who is Liang Baiping? Do Luther and Goding know him?

I find it interesting and informative that his form looks exactly like Feng's Hunyuan and not very much like the family line we do:

chrisdonnahee said:

I find it interesting and informative that his form looks exactly like Feng's Hunyuan and not very much like the family line we do:

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The further they go from the family line, the more wavy they get?

I also see he's mainly moving the arms and legs. Looks kind of disconnected with nothing much happening in the body.

johnyii said:

Who is Liang Baiping? Do Luther and Goding know him?

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Yes some do. I got a little annoyed, not my nicest response ever, but ... I was very cordial a few times prior and he chose to completely ignore me while responding to others. It's not about me, I am just speaking for CY so I found that awfully rude.

chrisdonnahee said:

his form looks exactly like Feng's Hunyuan and not very much like the family line we do:

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I guess he went to Feng's style at some point but others know more about that story than I. I just know even for Feng's approach it has many bad habits.

Edmond said:

ooks kind of disconnected with nothing much happening in the body.

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I think plenty of people have not much happening in the body. The body is very hard to do without good instruction and that should have many rules and requirements to get to that point anyhow. Moving the body around effectively also requires NOT moving some other things around, because something has to stabilize or it's all useless. Some people (some methods) have power through the body but showing little to no movement. That is useful too but again- stabilize.

This guy could be plenty strong and/or effective in his own way, but it is important, at least to me, to be clear about whether or not one's 'own way' is actually the intended art, or anywhere near the alleged lineage and approach.

Regardless of whether one likes idiosyncratic methods or not, the objective problem with them is that they cannot be cohesively handed down to produce any reliable repeatable result, because they are messy and poorly understood 'ways to skin a cat' as they say. That can still be ok, until people promote that as the traditional art. It's just problematic and not helping the art.

Marin said:

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and

Chen Shi Xinyi Hunyuan Taijiquan | Regarding the recent (unending) promotional posts by Baiping Liang regarding the history of Yang Wenjing and Yang Wenhu with Chen Zhaokui, (and his ow... | Facebook

Regarding the recent (unending) promotional posts by Baiping Liang regarding the history of Yang Wenjing and Yang Wenhu with Chen Zhaokui, (and his own cosmically important book release) I am...

www.facebook.com

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I can't open the first link. Maybe it was removed or made private, I guess that was Liang's self promotion.

Anyway, I find the (other) politics of it in the second post interesting. You wrote that according to Chenyu, CZK had no disciples because of the politics in China in the 70's. So the fact seems to be that he had only students and no disciples. I'm wondering if you were to speculate, suppose there was no political oppressions that made having disciples dangerous, would CZK have had any? If so, who among the students would have been the most likely?

I tried googling for Yang Wenhu and found his form video below on Gongfutube:

teesid said:

suppose there was no political oppressions that made having disciples dangerous, would CZK have had any? If so, who among the students would have been the most likely?

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Without the political turmoil I am certain he would have had Tudi. From my perspective I would think that Yang Wenhu and Zhang Maozhen were the best of his students. They probably would have taken that route, maybe some others but I am not saing that they are "as good" or 'as deeply trained' as Tudi but they just did not have the title. I really don't know. Tudi USED to mean fairly long term time spent with one teacher at least. Besides directly being affected by political problems the likely other indirect reason he took no disciples was that both politics and economics played a role in CZK's need to have a life of near constant traveling to teach and make money. He was not in one place for extended periods of time at least in a certain period as I heard it. This is also a bit of a problem in taking Tudi at that time.

Zhang Maozhen

It's cool to go back and watch these videos every so often and see them with different eyes as my own practice progresses.

angryclown said:

Zhang Maozhen

It's cool to go back and watch these videos every so often and see them with different eyes as my own practice progresses.

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Truth be told,I pretty much don't understand what I'm seeing at all yet when I watch pure forms videos like these,but I presume that's par for the course for folks who haven't yet trained this stuff,even with a background (not that you can really say that for my case given my measly 2-3 months of experience. ) in combat sports.

I've seen Marin's Tuishou and partner application videos on his youtube channel though,so at least I was able to see how its executed with a training partner.