Mini Milestones & Memories re: Jin Gang Dao Dui

[BobbysBrouhaha]

In honor of the fact that I made it thru the end of Jin Gang Dao Dui today ("made it" being perhaps charitable - I almost died), I thought this clip would be apropos to share.

Michael was my first Chen style taijiquan instructor, he himself being an instructor under Ren Guangyi (one of Chen Xiaowang's disciples and Chen Bing's older kung fu brother). I would have been learning their Lao Jia Yi Lu during this time.

I've been asked a couple times about some of the applications I was taught thru that lineage (Chen Bing & Chen Xiaowang side of things) and this showcases some of what he taught, and some of what I learned. At :40 is the basic "withdraw and push" application I was shown for Qi Shi, for example.

Thought y'all might enjoy dissecting and discussing.


Editor's note: I am not trying to misrepresent what I learned or where I was in that system; I would travel to seminars with whomever I could find a few times per year, take private lessons during those trips when I could afford them, and then go back home and work on what I'd been shown (adding where I could). I haven't been a formal student in a school or under a specific lineage for several years.

 

[Marin]

This is a little confusing, because the opening at 0:35 I think is not their (Chen Village styles) opening at all. I cannot say for sure, but it is pretty likely Micheal was watching those Chenyu discs I sold back in the day or similar things from our style that feature that Erlu Jingang opening. A whole lot of things changed in the public presentations as soon as Chenyu made himself visible. I do not believe that opening is native to their style. Someone can certainly debate this point but the problem is, no one ever saw that in any public situation before 2003.

Some of those applications are pretty standard. I liked Micheal, one of the few guys that was not scared to be friendly with myself, whom others in the Chen Viallge scene considered a thread to business.

 

[angryclown]

It's just a flashy demo, but some of those apps only work because the teacher is heavier and stronger than the student, and a bunch more are only applicable to a vigorous tuishou context. I think things look different when someone is training towards actual fighting usage vs. when tuishou itself is the end goal. Both are fine, I think, they're just different. Also, it looks like the student is legit trying to throw Michael on his ass, which is pretty rare, now or ever, in the public taiji sphere.

 

[Andy Malone]

Welcome Bob! It's a flashy demo like Brian said. It's difficult to pick apart the fact from fiction. I don't like the push at the beginning. I don't ever think about pushing someone like that in a fight. Reminds me of something you would see in highschool. Two guys start pushing eachother to initiate combat.

If they give me all that(the body), I would try something else.

It's difficult to demonstrate the real applications... which is why Marin does them more slowly in his demo's. If you do them fast and hard someone is getting seriously injured.

Best wishes

 

[BobbysBrouhaha]

Regarding @Marin Laoshi's comment: I wondered about this opening myself back when I first saw it. I saw a few things that were explained to me as "variations of practice." The clip I've included here, "free stepping," was one such concept I was exposed to as well (and given some guidelines for). The many variations of Chan Si Jing/Gong are, perhaps, other examples of free practice in various forms.

I do wonder if that was/is a way of hiding things or incorporating ideas they liked but were different from what has been preached openly. Essentially adopting things and, instead of giving due credit, kinda going, "oh yeah, that's a variation we sometimes do also." I'm making no accusations, merely musing on the myriad of myths, machinations, and more Michael and the magnates may have mushroomed to the mainstream masses and myself.

As for Michael, I will say he would throw down in friendly sessions, charged me reasonable prices, and he did kick my ass several times. RIP my friend.

 

[Andy Malone]

There is a thread called "Shovel Stepping". There, Marin addresses all forms of slidy step. In short, he is very cynical about those steps. Chen Yu hates it too. If Chen Yu saw Marin do anything like that he would have been yelled at. It's not martial at all.

I also had many questions about it.

For me, this class has been a great clarifier. You will learn in very dense small bites. Don't underestimate the density of everything here. It's not normal tai chi. At about 5 moves the reality and monumental quality of it started to become visible. Now I am afraid of the form a little. Im afraid because I'm not able to cheat myself when I do it. Not as easily anymore.

Marin's class will be great for you.