
708K views · 7.5K reactions | Insane Wrestling Move 😱 | GreatestHighlights
Insane Wrestling Move 😱.
Idk what words to use, but as he turns his back and drops to his knees, is it the force of the turning and falling momentum combined with the arm grab that pulls his opponent up and over?![]()
708K views · 7.5K reactions | Insane Wrestling Move 😱 | GreatestHighlights
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That's very interesting. I feel like there is some kind of obvious and automatic preventative counter to this move right in our tuishou, and probably something a bit rude, but I cannot visualize it at the moment because this guy is so damn fast. I would have to slow down that video....I prefer the single knee drop seoi nage (which looks like seoi otoshi) rather than both because my Judo instructor/Pathophysiology Prof told me that was his go-to move when he was younger and doing tournaments regularly in France, but now (years ago) he needs knee surgery from the constant impact/wear and tear...So younger, basketball-playing me decided to do that double knee drop move only during holidays and leap years
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Holy smokes, fascinating!It's a decreasing arc. It works similar to how if you push water through a pipe and then decrease the size of the pipe, the water speeds up. Decreasing arcs work great for throwing, and increasing arcs work great for deflecting and unbalancing.
It's a bit of a useless nerd thing, but I would be willing to bet that if you were to accurately track the path of the guy's hands, it would look very much like a curve drawn with the golden ratio:
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It's kind of useless information in that you just have to feel it and practice it out, but it's a cool notion.
The thrower also has the advantage of gravity (as you said), biomechanically strong leverage, and moving fulcrums to help things along.
I am sure it does as it's the basic motion of most of the physical world's circular leverage actions.does the golden ratio have anything to say about the mysterious taiji spirals I’ve heard so much about?
Yes, so many Judokas have wear and tear on their knees from this or just having their legs swept and their foot sticking to mat. You either dislocate or break a toe or you little by little tear away at the knee. My other issue with this throw is that your are not going to do it in a self-defense situation on a hard surface. So I was always wary of practicing these categories of throws too much for that reason. That said, the dude is the video is a beast!...I prefer the single knee drop seoi nage (which looks like seoi otoshi) rather than both because my Judo instructor/Pathophysiology Prof told me that was his go-to move when he was younger and doing tournaments regularly in France, but now (years ago) he needs knee surgery from the constant impact/wear and tear...So younger, basketball-playing me decided to do that double knee drop move only during holidays and leap years
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Yes, so many Judokas have wear and tear on their knees from this or just having their legs swept and their foot sticking to mat. You either dislocate or break a toe or you little by little tear away at the knee. My other issue with this throw is that your are not going to do it in a self-defense situation on a hard surface. So I was always wary of practicing these categories of throws too much for that reason. That said, the dude is the video is a beast!
Super interesting to me that you are strategizing tactical counters to throws like this from a tuishou/taiji perspective. Disclaimer, I am not expert at grappling. Now that that's out of the way... how I was taught to counter a shoulder or hip throw was to step laterally or circularly away from the entry, jam your hip into the opponent, and grab their waist and pull them into you. The problem is that if the enter fast and deep as this dude is doing, you are always too late. I had this experience doing randori with a guy who was a former member of the German Olympic team (who, by the way, didn't go to the Olympics because he blew out his knee weeks before the event). He could enter and do seoi nage dropping to the ground or not and chuck you through the air. It also seemed like he did not need to be that close to you to have the leverage to take you off your feet. He was also very fast. After reflecting on that experience, I really think the only option I had was to not allow him to enter at the angle he needed for the throw through body positioning, gripping, and/or footwork. I don't know how it would be done, but those are my two cents of reflection for what it is worth.That's very interesting. I feel like there is some kind of obvious and automatic preventative counter to this move right in our tuishou, and probably something a bit rude, but I cannot visualize it at the moment because this guy is so damn fast. I would have to slow down that video.
Thanks for all this great info, I totally agree about the hyper focus on killing and how it affects the practitioners mindset. For a few years in my twenties, I did full contact fights and experienced this. Did not like it all. That's not how I want to project myself into the world. It is very interesting from a self-cultivation perspective as well.As I have almost exclusively trained Chen Taijiquan over the decades I watch other arts with interest and instinctual caveat. Immediately upon seeing this I just feel from the video that I don't want to do it, dont want to train it at all. That said it's fun to watch, effective and the guy is good. My first teacher had this idea about how the art you train habituates your body and mind to it's strategies and comfort zone. I think he is correct in some ways. He used to say "Taiji guys don't want to train high kicking." The art does have kicks of course but it's not the main focus or strategic approach. He would say that we spend so much time on rooting, balance, and stability that we are averse to lifting a leg (essentially taking a gamble on a high kick) because it is counter to our primary focus. "I have two legs for stability. I don't want to lift one of them, I would rather have three on the ground," he would say. He was into that stuff. He had ideas about his first art, Zhu Gar (southern mantis) and why he faded out of teaching and training it; he said it is hyper focused on killing the opponent so it makes the practitioner too aggressive and decreases quality of life, no peace.
I think there is something to his ideas, I spent some years with him so I was influenced at a young age anyhow. When I see these guys dropping to their knees I immediately feel, no, I want to stay off my knees. My knees are sensitive, it's already a lot of focus to maintain them at this age. True, the application is a no go on pavement in real life, or even just slightly rocky dirt (ouch). I would hate to practice this kind of thing on the receiving end as well. That kind of throwing/falling is very much age limited, and who the hell is doing this without mats?
What I am looking at in terms of application is I hate turning my back to the opponent. That is a sport mindset, sort of like sport tuishou as well; a flash change to footwork, spin and apply before the opponent knows what's happening. But what happens when people are used to it and engaged with one's change? Then they have your back, and the opponent's right arm that he is exploiting is already at the door of the throat. Ok, I just figured it out. I am slow, it takes a while; this is only applicable because the opponent is offering some kind of sprawl; a stance we NEVER offer. He can slide onto his knee through the opponent's legs. With the normal diagonal stance the opportunity is not there, but diagonal stance invites the shoot- interesting chess game as always.
Of course, I am a one-trick-Pony. I am always looking out the window at other arts but I am a pretty classic example of the myopic traditional martial artist. I've been criticized for it for decades and yet, I don't care much. It's paid off to deeply learn one thing. So I always look at these things from a tuishou perspective and interestingly it's been very functional. In most cases one would need to be actively training with and against such things to be functional but from a strategic and methodological viewpoint it's often good and interesting.Super interesting to me that you are strategizing tactical counters to throws like this from a tuishou/taiji perspective. Disclaimer, I am not expert at grappling. Now that that's out of the way... how I was taught to counter a shoulder or hip throw was to step laterally or circularly away from the entry, jam your hip into the opponent, and grab their waist and pull them into you. The problem is that if the enter fast and deep as this dude is doing, you are always too late. I had this experience doing randori with a guy who was a former member of the German Olympic team (who, by the way, didn't go to the Olympics because he blew out his knee weeks before the event). He could enter and do seoi nage dropping to the ground or not and chuck you through the air. It also seemed like he did not need to be that close to you to have the leverage to take you off your feet. He was also very fast. After reflecting on that experience, I really think the only option I had was to not allow him to enter at the angle he needed for the throw through body positioning, gripping, and/or footwork. I don't know how it would be done, but those are my two cents of reflection for what it is worth.
Do you think a basic knowledge and understanding of physics, or any other field of study or discipline, is necessary to, or at least informs and enriches study of Taiji?I am sure it does as it's the basic motion of most of the physical world's circular leverage actions.
Ask this question in reverseDo you think a basic knowledge and understanding of physics, or any other field of study or discipline, is necessary to, or at least informs and enriches study of Taiji?
This came up in a Jesse Enkamp video where he interviewed an old style Ju-Jutsu practitioner. The idea of giving the back to the opponent is a sport mindset and done because you know the rules "got your back".What I am looking at in terms of application is I hate turning my back to the opponent. That is a sport mindset, sort of like sport tuishou as well
Thinking back to my Wing Chun (or more specifically Wing Tsun) days, we were taught a similar counter if I'm visualizing your words correctly. I remember relaxing and sinking was important to make it not so easy to get lifted/thrown. Then there was the idea of not letting them (particularly their hip) get under your center of gravity. I think I remember stepping into their legs with our footwork to jam/wedge into their legs.how I was taught to counter a shoulder or hip throw was to step laterally or circularly away from the entry, jam your hip into the opponent, and grab their waist and pull them into you.
I think I'm seeing this too now. It's the perfect position to get thrown by that throw. Like an invitation.this is only applicable because the opponent is offering some kind of sprawl; a stance we NEVER offer
Would he go for this kind of throw if the opponent was in any other position like our usual diagonal stance? I guess he'd have to come in diagonally but that delays his approach.