The kind of students teachers of Taijiquan inevitably have to suffer in the US; a cautionary tale

marin

Lao Tou
Staff member
I have had so many of these over the years, starting way back. Some old students remember the sordid tale of the 300 pound (5ft) man who visited my class and asked if I could handle a student with a broken leg. I asked him how he broke it and he yelled at me that he was up in a tree doing drugs.. then there was the Russian young woman who wanted me (and this art) to help remove the black magic curse that was put on her. She spent much of the class hugging trees and whispering to them to get help removing the curse, and alternatively following all the male students around waiting to be asked to be their girlfriend. Many others are on this list. This latest one, well I held myself back from posting it here because sometimes doing so can seem like adolescent humor, because naturally it is at the fart level. This time though well, its very egregious and I am posting it here for the humorous benefit of the group as well as a cautionary tale for any other horribly annoying delusional personalities who want to have a try next time. This is publicly viewable, and so will your attempt be in the future. You have been warned.

The 'student' in question, I had seen his self promotional advertisements as some kind of teacher/healer in the area many years back and recognized the name. It was easy to read this guy was engaged in some normal quasi-new age self delusion, but I never thought much of it as I did not need to.

In August this guy wrote to me asking about classes. I recognized the name and 'groaned' (spiritually). In his bio he claimed to have learned from Wang Haijun and many others 'important people'. I wrote back to him trying to put him off of the scent but I've never actually met the guy & he was insistent. I reached out to several students here to see if there was really any reason I should bother with this weirdo... No one had a super compelling push either way. In the end (as you might read) I warned him the class would be very hard and he would likely be distressed by the amount of disparaging talk about the things he previously trained. He said he was game so eventually I mistakenly elected to let him try.
No good deed goes unpunished.

He did attend maybe two classes. We gave him only standing to practice. He presented as maybe 5 ft tall, and significantly overweight. In standing practice he was unable to withstand the slightest sinking on the leg, immediately bouncing up to comfort. I could get him to take a little bit of pain if I stayed with him there, but it was only for about 2 seconds at a time.
Next time everyone just advise me "no".
Read at your own risk. It is laborious, funny, especially at the end, but a bit of a dark tale of mental illness.
 
Last edited:

marin

Lao Tou
Staff member
On Aug 14, 2024, at 3:56 AM, EO-HOLISTIC BostonMassageBodySoundWorkFitness <eoholistic@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Sir,
Would you kindly forward your schedule of classes, location and fee schedule?
Xie xie

Enrique Maximillion DeJesus Oliveras
Sound Therapist
  • Dance Instructor
  • Certified Yoga Instructor
  • Lic Massage Therapist (Clinical)
  • ISSA Natl. Certified Personal Trainer
  • MedFit Approved Medical Fitness Instructor
  • ASAF Natl. Certified Group, Bootcamp & Pilates Instructor
  • Best Selling Author, Herman Kauz Certified & N.E.S.A Certified Tai Chi & Qigong Instructor
781 859 8097
 

marin

Lao Tou
Staff member
On Wednesday, August 14, 2024, Marin Spivack <> wrote:
Hello,
please tell me your background and reasons for interest. Are you asking for an individual or a business?
Thanks,
Marin

Marin Spivack / 默灵
陈照奎太极拳社北美分会
Chen Zhaokui Taijiquan Association, North America
http://molingtaiji.com/
 

marin

Lao Tou
Staff member
On Wednesday, August 14, 2024, EO-HOLISTIC BostonMassageBodySoundWorkFitness <eoholistic@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello
Cheng Style 1980 Herman Kauz
Yuan Ming Qigong, Bagua & 5 Elements Hsing Yi 1996. Schloarship awarded
Workshops
Gao Style Bagua, Luo De Xiu
Chen Style, Wang Hai Jun
Faculty New England School of Acupuncture, tai ji & qigong, closed
Dir Internal Arts, Charles River School of Shiatsu, closed
Out of it 10 years for personal reasons. Some health, injury and side effects of covid shot lung recovery. Like to recommence studies so, personal. Given name, Henry. Leading yoga and Tai Ji qigong classes various places seeing bodywork clients privately. Age 63. Like the style very much.

😌
🙏
Enrique Maximillion DeJesus Oliveras
Sound Therapist
  • Dance Instructor
  • Certified Yoga Instructor
  • Lic Massage Therapist (Clinical)
  • ISSA Natl. Certified Personal Trainer
  • MedFit Approved Medical Fitness Instructor
  • ASAF Natl. Certified Group, Bootcamp & Pilates Instructor
  • Best Selling Author, Herman Kauz Certified & N.E.S.A Certified Tai Chi & Qigong Instructor
781 859 8097
 

marin

Lao Tou
Staff member
On Aug 14, 2024, at 1:17 PM, EO-HOLISTIC BostonMassageBodySoundWorkFitness <eoholistic@gmail.com> wrote:
30 sec recent vid of me, for your review. Just been doing silk reeling. Lost forms, for the most part.

Enrique Maximillion DeJesus Oliveras
Sound Therapist
  • Dance Instructor
  • Certified Yoga Instructor
  • Lic Massage Therapist (Clinical)
  • ISSA Natl. Certified Personal Trainer
  • MedFit Approved Medical Fitness Instructor
  • ASAF Natl. Certified Group, Bootcamp & Pilates Instructor
  • Best Selling Author, Herman Kauz Certified & N.E.S.A Certified Tai Chi & Qigong Instructor
781 859 8097
 

marin

Lao Tou
Staff member
On Thu, Aug 15, 2024, 10:52 AM Marin Spivack <> wrote:
Hello Henry,
thanks for your interest. I am sorry to hear about your illness. You certainly do have a lot of experience, but this particular art/style is exceptionally challenging and it may not be suitable for your needs and situation. This requires starting from the very beginning with the very demanding work. Teaching those who are already in the business of teaching is usually a losing proposition as well. This practice is pretty much the antithesis of qigong for quite some time anyhow.
Marin


Marin Spivack / 默灵
陈照奎太极拳社北美分会
Chen Zhaokui Taijiquan Association, North America
http://molingtaiji.com/
 

marin

Lao Tou
Staff member
On Thursday, August 15, 2024, EO-HOLISTIC BostonMassageBodySoundWorkFitness <eoholistic@gmail.com> wrote:
Of course, wothout seeing what your speaking of, i cannot judge. Would you direct me to a video?

Enrique Maximillion DeJesus Oliveras
Sound Therapist
  • Dance Instructor
  • Certified Yoga Instructor
  • Lic Massage Therapist (Clinical)
  • ISSA Natl. Certified Personal Trainer
  • MedFit Approved Medical Fitness Instructor
  • ASAF Natl. Certified Group, Bootcamp & Pilates Instructor
  • Best Selling Author, Herman Kauz Certified & N.E.S.A Certified Tai Chi & Qigong Instructor
781 859 8097
 

marin

Lao Tou
Staff member
On Thursday, August 15, 2024, EO-HOLISTIC BostonMassageBodySoundWorkFitness <eoholistic@gmail.com> wrote:
Well,Chen style in general is demanding. I have no issue with hard work and I wouldn't reach out if i weren't feeling "up to it". I know exactly what ypu mean about teaching instructors and fancy myself quite flexible in mind so, if you're testing my resolve, I am unmoved. If it's a pigeon holing thing and you're refusing even seeing if I can or can't I, of course, have nothing I can do or say but respect the rejection.
I look forward to hearing from you. Fyi, I do.prefer Enrique to Henry.
Xie xie

Enrique Maximillion DeJesus Oliveras
Sound Therapist
  • Dance Instructor
  • Certified Yoga Instructor
  • Lic Massage Therapist (Clinical)
  • ISSA Natl. Certified Personal Trainer
  • MedFit Approved Medical Fitness Instructor
  • ASAF Natl. Certified Group, Bootcamp & Pilates Instructor
  • Best Selling Author, Herman Kauz Certified & N.E.S.A Certified Tai Chi & Qigong Instructor
781 859 8097
 

marin

Lao Tou
Staff member
On Thursday, August 15, 2024, EO-HOLISTIC BostonMassageBodySoundWorkFitness <eoholistic@gmail.com> wrote:
I did find vids. Doesn't look any different than Wang Hai Jun's Chen or anything I couldn't handle, respectfully, even on the mend. Currently my cardio is quite high surpassing even much younger

😌
🙏

Enrique Maximillion DeJesus Oliveras
  • Sound Therapist
  • Dance Instructor
  • Certified Yoga Instructor
  • Lic Massage Therapist (Clinical)
  • ISSA Natl. Certified Personal Trainer
  • MedFit Approved Medical Fitness Instructor
  • ASAF Natl. Certified Group, Bootcamp & Pilates Instructor
  • Best Selling Author, Herman Kauz Certified & N.E.S.A Certified Tai Chi & Qigong Instructor
781 859 8097
 

marin

Lao Tou
Staff member
This is when I reached out for opinions. Guy could not tell any difference between styles- red flag.
 

marin

Lao Tou
Staff member
On Friday, August 16, 2024, Marin Spivack <> wrote:


Hello, Enrique.

My reluctance is not about your age or condition related to the ability to take the physical challenge. It is about your age related to really a LOT of experience with previous teachers and styles. Then there is the issue that you are in the business of teaching as well. It’s a lot to unpack.

Based on experience, multitudes of teachers, styles and workshops, especially as we get older results in an overload of ideology that is a chore to counter. Being in the teaching. martial, health industry, well that is your livelihood and you cannot be expected to NOT teach what you learn.

Although you are not able to see it from videos apparently, this style is really radically different from that of Wang Haijun. I have had a number of refugees from that line already. It is just barely similar, structurally and functionally. Chen Zhenglei’s style is extremely simple by comparison; and resultingly this style ends up cannibalizing those habits. Teachers who are active are not able to isolate their learning and avoid teaching.

From experience I prefer to avoid situations in which those with a life of varied experience end up with the unpleasant experience of someone younger than themselves denigrating all that previous experience in the first week and then ongoing. It is bound to be a situation of challenge and conflict, ideologically, as pretty much all of the previous training that you listed would be refuted. I have yet to meet any student with such experience who wanted to participate in that, unless they absolutely understood that it had all been fruitless.
Marin


Marin Spivack / 默灵
陈照奎太极拳社北美分会
Chen Zhaokui Taijiquan Association, North America
http://molingtaiji.com/
 

marin

Lao Tou
Staff member
On Saturday, August 17, 2024, EO-HOLISTIC BostonMassageBodySoundWorkFitness <eoholistic@gmail.com> wrote:


Sir,

I truely appreciate your candor. How could I teach something I don't "really know"? I cannot nor have I nor would I without your consent. In my eyes that's grounds for dissmissal. I lead 1 tai ji class that focuses on the qigong aspects in a Qigong class. The rest are Core, Flow and Sculpt Yoga classes because, and I'm sure you'll agree, martial arts is a inconsistent income with very few dedicated to sticking around.

My experience with Master Wang was minimal but I worked VERY HARD in his absence. He only comes in 3 times per year. The only "ideolgy" I carry is the Taost principles of "change" and being around long as I have I feel I'm good at keeping Ideologies and pricipals seperate.

The bulk of my trainjng was with Herman Kauz whose focus was on not presenting a surface, weighing, finding the best angles to produce the best results using mininal force and some Chin na in push hands. It takes a VERY LONG TIME to aquire even minimal skills with progress in 5-10 year increments thus people get very frustrated VERY early on because it requires really "investing in loss".

Sir, you have a BIG reputation and a ancestrol load to carry. I wouldn't dream of tarnishing it with my own aspirations. That's just unethical. You don't know me but should you choose to take me on, you will very quickly find that all I have is my "word and reputation" that I try very hard to kerp solid providing a good examlle as a man, a person and a "human being"

I will not assure you as I'm sure you've bern assured and let down before. I will let my actions be my testimonial. The reason for the variety of instructors is there have been none in my area after Master Kauz who I was with for years. The attraction here is just that. FINALLY! A MASTER PRACTITIONER CLOSE ENOUGH TO DEDICATE MYSELF TO THE TRAING WITH ON A REGULAR BASIS!!🎉🎊🥂

A good teacher is a good student and I an a excellent teacher and a excellent student...by reputation. My suoervisors all claim I get raves and as such, I oresent myself at your door prepared to work, listen, follow and learn.
Xie xie

Enrique Maximillion DeJesus Oliveras
  • Sound Therapist
  • Dance Instructor
  • Certified Yoga Instructor
  • Lic Massage Therapist (Clinical)
  • ISSA Natl. Certified Personal Trainer
  • MedFit Approved Medical Fitness Instructor
  • ASAF Natl. Certified Group, Bootcamp & Pilates Instructor
  • Best Selling Author, Herman Kauz Certified & N.E.S.A Certified Tai Chi & Qigong Instructor
781 859 8097
 

marin

Lao Tou
Staff member
On Sat, Aug 17, 2024 at 3:17 PM EO-HOLISTIC BostonMassageBodySoundWorkFitness <eoholistic@gmail.com> wrote:

Aplogies again for the numerous. Sir, i'v been dancing since boyhood. Salsa, merenge, disco, free style, modern and african. This foundation of different movement styles gives me a leg up as the foundation leads to adaptability but also finding the simiar threads in movent and seeing and applying the differences. I believe this is what gave my instructors the confidence to conduct basic training for their return.

Enrique Maximillion DeJesus Oliveras
  • Sound Therapist
  • Dance Instructor
  • Certified Yoga Instructor
  • Lic Massage Therapist (Clinical)
  • ISSA Natl. Certified Personal Trainer
  • MedFit Approved Medical Fitness Instructor
  • ASAF Natl. Certified Group, Bootcamp & Pilates Instructor
  • Best Selling Author, Herman Kauz Certified & N.E.S.A Certified Tai Chi & Qigong Instructor
781 859 8097
 

marin

Lao Tou
Staff member
On Saturday, August 17, 2024, Chen Zhaokui Taijiquan Association <> wrote:
Ok, Enrique. We can give it a try.
Keep in mind, although the class is socially casual I am a rather strict traditional teacher. The training is very challenging and I am very blunt.
Classes are Saturday mornings at 10:30am in Waltham. Current tuition is --- monthly.
Best way to start is to make a free account here;
https://members.molingtaiji.com/index.php
We handle tuition through the site mostly. It’s also a huge library of curriculum, which is helpful outside of class.
Let me know after you have created an account and I will add a subscription option. Then you can send me a text at +16175488733 and I can send you the info when you are ready to attend a saturday class.
Marin
 

marin

Lao Tou
Staff member
On Sunday, August 18, 2024, EO-HOLISTIC BostonMassageBodySoundWorkFitness <eoholistic@gmail.com> wrote:
I registered successfully.
I don't know what your definition of "strict" or "blunt" or "tradtional" is but I will work hard to the best of my limitations. I imagine you'll tell or I'll see what those definitions are when I get there. Presumably, it doesn't mean abusive as our interaction displays directness that might be considered "blunt" by massachusens standards but I'm originally from NYC and have been accused of being "blunt & strict" where I don't see I am.
I imagine starting at the beginning of next month works best for your accounting? I await said information to complete enrollment.
Xie xie
 

marin

Lao Tou
Staff member
On Sunday, August 18, 2024, EO-HOLISTIC BostonMassageBodySoundWorkFitness <eoholistic@gmail.com> wrote:
May I ask what will my 1st day look like?

On Sunday, August 18, 2024, EO-HOLISTIC BostonMassageBodySoundWorkFitness <eoholistic@gmail.com> wrote:
Btw, though I like being a student of I don't really enjoy teaching martial arts much but love teaching the other classes mentioned.

😌
🙏

On Aug 18, 2024, at 3:28 PM, EO-HOLISTIC BostonMassageBodySoundWorkFitness <eoholistic@gmail.com> wrote:
Sir,

Payment has been made. I was able to cleare my schedule to start the 31st, 2 wks. The 1st sat of next month is in 3 wks. That's longer than i want to wait. May I pay at the end of each month to start the 31st or do you prefer I wait the 3 wks using this payment for the 1st sat in sept?

I'm still laughing at your choice of words, "Wang Hai Jun "Refugees"🤣. When I read it I thought. "I like this guy"! I might have put it that way as well.
If you would, were they expelled or did they leave of their own accord?
How would you like to be addressed?
What would you like ne to watch before I begin?
I await your response to the previous email as well. I know the training is tough and ask that you remember I'm 63 not 23.
Xie xie

😌
🙏
 

marin

Lao Tou
Staff member
On Sunday, August 18, 2024, Marin Spivack <> wrote:


Hello,
no need to call me sire. Call me Marin is fine.
There is absolutely nothing abusive in this school and we have been 100% successful at avoiding the typical cult/guru worship social climbing psycho power dynamics that infest the majority of martial arts and spiritual groups. I am blunt, and plenty of people would call me an asshole because I know what is what and am not afraid to say it. I trained for years in a Chinese environment including the language that I am proficient in. I teach in that context and water down nothing for western audience. There is a huge amount of western ignorance about Chinese culture and gongfu, and some good money to made maintaining that ignorance. I don’t do that. There is some resentment out there about that.
There is no need for you to wait until the first of the month to start. You already paid, that is the start of your cycle. You can attend class whenever is convenient.. For now though, start here:
members.molingtaiji.com
The beginning material there will be exactly what we look at in the first classes, and then build upon that over the long term.

“Wang Haijun refugees, all left of their own volition looking for a better situation after eventually realizing it was not leading to any depth. I’ve had more than 4 of them at least.
Your age is not a problem, and you are not the oldest. We have a 70 year old as well. It’s just that each person’s practice must be both age and condition appropriate. Some 40 year olds are in rough shape and they need special accommodations. The important point is that based on condition/injuries etc we will find the limits of what you ARE able to do and then extend them over time with proper foundational building practices.
Go to the start thread and proceed as explained, then feel free to use the “conversation” feature (private message) to ask direct questions of ask content specific question in the appropriate threads for the material you are asking about. At the beginning there are few items open for you, but as you progress more will open.
Anyhow you can just explore the site and get started working on what is available if you like until you choose to attend a Saturday.
Welcome,
Marin
 

marin

Lao Tou
Staff member
On Sep 7, 2024, at 6:04 PM, EO-HOLISTIC BostonMassageBodySoundWorkFitness <eoholistic@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes sir.
Some background. When my legs "went" and I was on crutches there was no indications, no prelude pain, no trembling legs...nothing. They just "cut out" and that's what's happening at class. It took a long time to get to where I am now. I'm not "giving up", you'll see little trembling. My legs just give out. I imagine it'll be that way until the training takes over.
Last week I continued to train. Come friday afternoon, I could hardly walk til monday, quite literally. Greatful for the long wekd to recover. Whatever pain healthy people go through in tbis training, I promise you, it's worse with my condition but I know it'll improve with dedication and time. I already see improvements. Trust me, I'm going beyond my threshhold when I'm there.
Also, I warm-up and train before I get there so, I'm not "fresh" when I get there. Can't say the thought of giving up hasn't crossed my mind. I just "Can't. It's not in me to so, it may be slow going till my body repairs sufficiently.
Safe journey
Enrique

Enrique Maximillion DeJesus Oliveras

•Sound Healer
•Dance Instructor
•Zumba Style Dance Class
•Certified Yoga Instructor
•Lic Massage Therapist (Clinical)
•ISSA Natl. Certified Personal Trainer
•ASAF Natl. Certified Group, Bootcamp & Pilates Instructor
•MedFit Approved Medical Fitness Instructor
•Best Selling Author, Herman Kauz Certified & N.E.S.A Certified Tai Chi & Qigong Instructor
781 859 8097
 

marin

Lao Tou
Staff member
To: EO-HOLISTIC BostonMassageBodySoundWorkFitness <eoholistic@gmail.com>

Have you had a neurological work up? That sounds alarming.
In any case if you could not walk after practice I hope it was just muscle soreness and not something else.
I am not disappointed if you cannot make any particular milestone at a given speed, so do whatever you feel is safe for you.
Regardless if how anyone feels about it, the foundation still must be developed before anything more complicated can be attempted or the likelihood of injury increases. It’s going to take as long as it takes.
Marin
 
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