Calling crane applications

angryclown

Jingang
I like to watch application videos of other styles and think about how much of it can be similarly achieved using jin from the first part of yilu.
Many crane styles make really good use of all the different hand shapes and energies (draping, cutting, piercing, etc.). It's everywhere in our stuff, but really obvious in some crane styles.

 
I had the opportunity to train with Richard Huang (Huang Zheng-Bin) in Taiwan when I lived there for six months in the early 2010s. He can do some pretty interesting stuff and is quite strong. I find it challenging to listen to the esoteric way in which he describes thing... But, what can I say, no one is perfect.
 

angryclown

Jingang
That's pretty cool that you trained with him back in the day. I liked what he was doing when this video was made, but he's since gone fully over to the dark side and is doing magical chi manipulation demos with Adam Mizner, et al. I guess he got tired of the grind and decided to chase the money, instead.
 
Yeah, an acquaintance of mine went to this Martial Camp and said he found Richard insufferable....like a snake oil salesman.... In Taiwan, I remember him being very frustrated that he wasn't more well known. That said, he was always a bit of a salesman. He has gone over the top with it now though.... I find this stuff so hard to watch. I just stay away from it.
 

marin

Lao Tou
Staff member
In Taiwan, I remember him being very frustrated that he wasn't more well known.

I sympathize with those wishing they could monetize their preferred fun activity in life. Who would not prefer that? It is, however, not a likely reality for MOST elective fun things. It should not be surprising that a random martial arts guy cannot become famous and wealthy from it. Why was this guy surprised? Although in the earlier video he looks functional and knowledgable in the style, Crane styles have a high popularity and were highly adopted in southern Chinese population over a long period of time. They have been very successful but probably reached saturation and then more recently a bit eclipsed by other popular interests. This guy is bitter because he bought in a bit late and cannot get famous over it?!

I don't think I am what we could call famous, and I am undoubtably not rich from gongfu, but achieving either of those things off of it was never in my imagined future. Riches in this case is a wealth in practice partners. There may be a significant difference though in the sense that (this) Taijiquan is a lot more fun (my opinion) than the purely fighting focused Crane or similar southern styles. Combative function is great, but tuishou has more longevity. It allows for much more non-injured time, and involves much more cleverness because it's about much more than just striking, or even 'winning'. It is kinetically and structurally "fun" and appears to me to be MORE FUN than Crane styles. I am biased anyhow, but Taijiquan like this is more popular than Crane styles for reasons beyond just the bullshit Qi-salesmen. It looks like a high degree of entitlement to insist that it's unfair that his Crane did not make him a super star.

At the risk of offending @angryclown I don't like Crane much and don't want to train it. Yes, many applications will have crossover, but they will be a whole lot more fun done our way. There, I said it, take your Crane style and shove it where you don't have feathers.

We don't all get to be famous and not all things are created equally fun. At least when they are less fun you can smear them with lotion and call them QI and get paid well.
 

angryclown

Jingang
At the risk of offending @angryclown I don't like Crane much and don't want to train it. Yes, many applications will have crossover, but they will be a whole lot more fun done our way. There, I said it, take your Crane style and shove it where you don't have feathers.
Ha! The joke's on you! I've already got feathers stuck everywhere!
(and you thought Richard was creepy...)

One of the things I appreciate about what we do is just how robust and versatile the toolset can be. I like how we can all practice the same stuff in essentially the same way, but two different people could have vastly different expressions in application based on body type, personality, etc.
 

marin

Lao Tou
Staff member
I've already got feathers stuck everywhere!

I don't want to know how they got 'stuck' there. My feathers everywhere are natural (except my head, that will be a chicken feather toupe- of course).

It's true though, I think the Chen form contains a really huge variety of functional application types and approaches all efficiently operating on an all purpose shenfa and frame. Most of the normal Chinese martial arts, (and some non Chinese arts) applications can be found and employed on our platform just done maybe a little more fun and in many cases a little more structurally connected and powered.
 
Is the video I posted "Martial Camp" and extension of "The Martial Man" Tm Inc LTD situation?
I did not see Mizner listed on there but the vibe and the idea seem to fit.
Yes, it is. Richard Huang was at the last Martial Man camp. I believe he is at this one as well. Mizner was not in the last one. Nor will he be in this one.

I could never get into the Southern Styles and did not particularly enjoy the little bit of Crane I learned.
 
It puts the lotion on its dan tian, or it gets the qi again?
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It's interesting and surprising to be able to see how different he became between the first video and the Martial Camp video. It's like he's not even doing the same style anymore.

I've seen other Martial Camp videos too, and they cycle through a lot of different "masters". I guess as soon as they start losing interest, they cycle a brand new mysterious master they found to bring up the interest again. I wonder if some masters would start making a return at some point after some cosmetic or "transitional" operations as a new master that has transcended gender and... (is this a PG rated forum?)

I notice the Martial Camp topics seem to be very similar though. The "fascia" theme seems common amongst many of them, and the demos all look the same. It's like all their styles are the same, or maybe just the people they demonstrate on are brainwashed the same? :unsure:
 

marin

Lao Tou
Staff member
after some cosmetic or "transitional" operations as a new master that has transcended gender and... (is this a PG rated forum?)
:oops:

I notice the Martial Camp topics seem to be very similar though. The "fascia" theme seems common amongst many of them

It's buzzwords for sale. They, specifically have zero involvement with so-called "fascia". They are not using it in their action (not any kind of deep fascial connection in any of those practitioners) and they are also not manipulating opponent's fascia either as there is no compelling trapping and tensioning of any sinews in their engagement. It's just bullshitting with buzzwords, meaningless recognizable trend identifiers that people have heard of that lend legitimacy to something vapid and useless... but expensive.
 

Kozmo

Wuji
There, I said it, take your Crane style and shove it where you don't have feathers.

Tai Chi vs White Crane!! Found this while reading an academic dissertation titled

TAIJIQUAN AND THE SEARCH FOR THE LITTLE OLD CHINESE MAN: RITUALIZING RACE THROUGH MARTIAL ARTS
 
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Kozmo

Wuji
Actually, kinda, yes . . .

Third chapter is a terrific ethnography of the Ma Liang group in Shanghai and very interesting phenomenology of pushing-hands,

Here's a couple quips from the introductory chapter:

Underlying the creation legends and multivocal histories above, as well as the practice and performance of taijiquan that one encounters at monthly meetings in urban parks, is a persistent vision of taijiquan as essentially Daoist. While these links between Daoism and taijiquan may go back only as far as the mid-nineteenth century (Wile 1996), the popular assumption is that taijiquan is ancient because it is Daoist, that it was originally a kind of Daoist esoteric practice. But the Daoism with which taijiquan is associated is not so much the popular, temple-based religious practice (taojiao) that has seen a resurgence in China in recent years as a kind of modernist philosophical Daoism (taojia) that grew out of a Euro-American scholarly tradition of Daoist studies. (p 64)

My best estimate is that approximately one hundred million Chinese practice something they call taijiquan in one form or another. Of these, perhaps ten million practice regularly. Among those, maybe a hundred thousand have dabbled in the martial aspects of the art, perhaps ten thousand have acquired an intermediate level of martial skill, and possibly a thousand living practitioners have reached the highest levels of skill in the art. The anti-superstition campaign of the 1990s that led to the outlawing of Falun Gong and several other popular, but heterodox qigong forms (Chen 2003) has only increased the popularity of taijiquan as an orthodox means of performing tradition and enacting a brand of Chineseness that supposedly erases ethnic, religious, class, and gender difference. (p 65)
 

angryclown

Jingang
https://kodokanboston.org/wp-conten...arts-in-the-american-cultural-environment.pdf

This is the best article I've seen regarding identity, etc. in the martial arts. The basic idea is that people tend to imbue "exotic" things like martial arts with characteristics that they perceive to be missing from their own culture, and that they wish to identify with. It's a pretty good observation, and can be generalized to a lot of human behavior. Although not a subject of the article, it also provides an interesting perspective on why people become so tightly attached to whatever delusions they may have about their own practice.
 
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