"Kung Fu is 90% Wrestling"
- Thread starter Edmond
- Start date
Nice video
Maou
Wuji
I've seen folks in MA forums lament the fact that they didn't Wrestle in school. (It wasn't an option in my case though. We didn't have Wrestling in school where I went.) Finding Wrestling past your school years I've heard is very difficult,and even if you could find it,you just might be too old to train at the level of intensity competitive wrestlers (The majority of people who get into wrestling seem to do it with the primary goal of competing and achieving greatness IN wrestling itself rather than an interest in MMA or especially self-defense.) train. Especially if you've come from a background of being a couch potato.
Chinese Martial Arts (provided that you know where you can find the authentic training,which is sadly not a given.) seems like a good choice (although of course its not the only choice!) for the above people. One of the big differences between Combat Sports and Classical Martial arts is that the latter seems to have more focus on training longevity. Helio Gracie (Founder of Gracie Jiu Jitsu which eventually produced our most popular beloved combat sport Brazilian Jiu Jitsu) was able to train until his 90's,while its common for BJJ hobbyists (especially if they compete) to eventually be forced to quit their sport due to injury accumulation.
Maybe its just the unfortunate side effect of contact Sports (I say this,but even Mcdojo Karate and Olympic TKD result in injury accumulation,maybe because the way they were taught to move is unhealthy for the joints?) and Competition. I mean,these are FIGHTING sports after all.
Chinese Martial Arts (provided that you know where you can find the authentic training,which is sadly not a given.) seems like a good choice (although of course its not the only choice!) for the above people. One of the big differences between Combat Sports and Classical Martial arts is that the latter seems to have more focus on training longevity. Helio Gracie (Founder of Gracie Jiu Jitsu which eventually produced our most popular beloved combat sport Brazilian Jiu Jitsu) was able to train until his 90's,while its common for BJJ hobbyists (especially if they compete) to eventually be forced to quit their sport due to injury accumulation.
Maybe its just the unfortunate side effect of contact Sports (I say this,but even Mcdojo Karate and Olympic TKD result in injury accumulation,maybe because the way they were taught to move is unhealthy for the joints?) and Competition. I mean,these are FIGHTING sports after all.
angryclown
Jingang
Rokas is an idiot. (That doesn't change anything about the video, I just have a burning compulsion to point that out at every opportunity.)
The video does a nice job of elucidating one aspect of things, but part of what makes a martial art interesting to me is the ability to operate across many different contexts. A lot of what we do is frankly unnecessary or even counterproductive for a sport fighting ruleset where things are optimized for a single, limited environment. So a "hands up" social encounter might be one thing, but then there's less regulated interactions that use striking, locking, and throwing, etc. in a variety of more or less hostile environments. Or weapons, ranging from a pocket stick or concealed knife to defend against a surprise attack all the way up to militia action using spears and swords. Having the same mechanics and principles that can apply to all of those, while also building the necessary attributes to be successful to at least a basic level in each, ends up creating a pretty interesting and flavorful stew, in my opinion. Looking for that one answer makes everything fit into a simple familiar box like "90% wrestling" is kind of like dumping a whole bunch of salt on everything you eat because you like salt, and then saying that now you know how to cook.
The video does a nice job of elucidating one aspect of things, but part of what makes a martial art interesting to me is the ability to operate across many different contexts. A lot of what we do is frankly unnecessary or even counterproductive for a sport fighting ruleset where things are optimized for a single, limited environment. So a "hands up" social encounter might be one thing, but then there's less regulated interactions that use striking, locking, and throwing, etc. in a variety of more or less hostile environments. Or weapons, ranging from a pocket stick or concealed knife to defend against a surprise attack all the way up to militia action using spears and swords. Having the same mechanics and principles that can apply to all of those, while also building the necessary attributes to be successful to at least a basic level in each, ends up creating a pretty interesting and flavorful stew, in my opinion. Looking for that one answer makes everything fit into a simple familiar box like "90% wrestling" is kind of like dumping a whole bunch of salt on everything you eat because you like salt, and then saying that now you know how to cook.
I have that compulsion as well from seeing his videos. Similar to a number of other Youtubers in that bucket with the clickbait titles, and trying to sound logical but are unaware of their own biases.
But this video was okay. Maybe because the others were doing more of the talking and demoing.
angryclown
Jingang
One nice thing about videos with wrestling is that for the most part people can actually do it with some level of realism without getting hurt. That means that much more of what they talk about is actually vetted in some sort of live usage, as opposed to a lot of other "application" videos.
Which guy is that? (and why?)
Maou
Wuji
Here is his life story of how/why he left Aikido and switched to MMA:
If you want the tl;dw (I personally found his story interesting) - He came from a bad Aikido school (How bad? This bad:
You can definitely feel and understand the shame when he talks of the story where he failed to stand up to an assailant and protect his students who were with him at the time,which resulted in them losing faith and respect in him. Fortunately,there's a happy ending for Rokas here when,post-MMA training, he again found himself in a situation and he was a lot calmer this time around. (you can make the argument though that perhaps he was being a little too overconfident if he really "wasn't afraid" in the presence of a machete)
I think his story of how MMA was his first introduction to real Martial training is not an uncommon one,especially back in the day when we didn't have as much research on the topic of Violence as we do today,but then,like also commonly experienced,these folks swing to the other extreme end of the pendulum and denounce any and all training that isn't applicable to the ring.
I think Rokas these days though is a lot more flexible with his views. He has a video where he went out of his way to look for effective Bujinkan/Ninjutsu training and he managed to find it and share his findings with us: Akban
That's what I know of Rokas. I haven't look that deeply into his stuff,but this is what I've seen of him so far.
angryclown
Jingang
That's basically it. This is a person who spent 20 years in the worst kind of bad MA school without having any kind of a clue, and then all of a sudden when the bubble bursts decides that because he was an idiot, all traditional martial arts are fake, and he's now an expert. How does 20 years of demonstrated stupidity qualify someone to be an expert on what everyone else does? It's not even so much the fact that he was clueless about his own MA practice for so long, as how he responded to it without any sort of rational questioning or insight that makes him an idiot. By and large, he seems to have continued the pattern of responding to his first experience of any given subject as if it were something that makes him an expert on it in it's entirety.
That is a pretty typical self appointed Jesus mentality, all over martial arts. When they are wrong they are right. Then when they realize they were wrong, they are right about that, and worse, they are the savior for everyone, based on realizing they were wrong/right, and now more right.
Brad Johnson
Qinglong
I thought all that was interesting, and wrote a long ramble, but decided to keep it simple. I think that guy paints and very black and white picture of a very nuanced topic. Namely, your style is either a fighting style or it's not. I don't believe our world is so simple. Whatever.
I also have to say I thought his first test against the guy with the machete was hilarious. He was near a bus stop with some crazy person screaming. His MMA fighting style kicked in and gave him the calmness and presence of mind to understand that he could hit the dude with the giant tripod he was carrying. But then the dude just left. Wow. An amazing display of fighting prowess. haha.
I enjoyed watching the Aikido footage.
I also have to say I thought his first test against the guy with the machete was hilarious. He was near a bus stop with some crazy person screaming. His MMA fighting style kicked in and gave him the calmness and presence of mind to understand that he could hit the dude with the giant tripod he was carrying. But then the dude just left. Wow. An amazing display of fighting prowess. haha.
I enjoyed watching the Aikido footage.
I was eating at McDonalds, and a suspicious homeless guy was staring at me. As I picked up some fries and twirled them around with the balance and grace that only comes from years of bitter practice, invoking the might of the Jingang, he looked away.
As I finish my McNuggets, I left the facility, proud that I have reached the level of "fighting without fighting".
I was thinking if I changed the title to "Ballet" or "Contemporary Dance" performance, he was quite amazing actually. I was moved by his performance.
Brad Johnson
Qinglong
I just have to watch this as movement and dance. And for that, to my eye, it seems a well done dance. Even exciting music!
Brad Johnson
Qinglong
I think you found the tie that binds. His two great challenges came from a non-aggressive crazy at a bus stop who took no notice of Rokas and a guy who lives under a bridge - obviously a top-form, trained fighter.
Just saying. I know nothing of this Rokas dude. Maybe he's better than Bruce Lee.
P.S., I'm glad he stood up for those women having lunch. That is a good move
P.P.S., But a relatively easy one considering the opponent was toothless, homeless and weak...
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Maou
Wuji
One could argue Rokas at least got some Kinesthetic Awareness and perhaps even general athletic development as a result of his training. I've read folks defend Bad MA training/Mcdojos in saying that at least the practitioners are still getting exercise. I don't know what you guys personally think,but I personally am not in favor. All those basic exercise benefits they speak of can be gotten in other sports and physical endeavors,WITHOUT the ingrainment of bad body mechanics that just might forever bar them from being able to take authentic training if they ever get an interest later on in their lives. I have also stated elsewhere that even kiddy Karate and TKD practitioners get wear and tear,possibly because the way they were taught to move isn't healthy for their joints.
I also honestly believe that the often touted benefit of Character Development in the MA,can really only be gotten through the hard authentic version of the training. Mcdojos do everything they can to minimize or even outright remove challenge in their training for the sake of customer retention and profit.
Finally,and most importantly in my opinion,if I'm paying for something,whether that's a product or a service,I damn well want the authentic version of it. I'm not paying for an expensive aerobics fitness program that just happens to get called "Martial Arts",when that is something I could get for much cheaper going to a program that advertises exactly as that. (or even free if I rely on youtube videos. I used to do those low impact aerobics on youtube when I first got into fitness.)
I also honestly believe that the often touted benefit of Character Development in the MA,can really only be gotten through the hard authentic version of the training. Mcdojos do everything they can to minimize or even outright remove challenge in their training for the sake of customer retention and profit.
Finally,and most importantly in my opinion,if I'm paying for something,whether that's a product or a service,I damn well want the authentic version of it. I'm not paying for an expensive aerobics fitness program that just happens to get called "Martial Arts",when that is something I could get for much cheaper going to a program that advertises exactly as that. (or even free if I rely on youtube videos. I used to do those low impact aerobics on youtube when I first got into fitness.)